The extracts mentioned here are from K M Ganguli translation of mahabharat
well me and my friend was discussing about this link
This is what is told in this link
Here is the flow of events … Duryodhan said: "As they are now our slaves, I command that they disrobe." On hearing these words, the 5 Pandav brothers removed their uttariya (a long piece of cloth worn on the shoulders, like a shawl) and kept it aside. Draupadi, who was wearing only one robe (ekvastra) denied to discard it. Druyodhan ordered Dushasan to disrobe Draupadi. At this command, Dushasan gleefully tried to get hold of her robe. Surging with rage Bheem thundered, "I swear, I'll kill you and drink your blood Dushasan!" It were these words from Bheem that stopped Dushasan from disrobing Draupadi, and hearing this trembling he sat on the floor. When Bheem killed Dushasan in the Great War, he asked "With which hand did you pull Draupadi by her hair?" He did not ask "With which hand did you pull Draupadi's clothes?" It was Bheem's rage, and his capability at doing what he uttered, that saved Draupadi, not Krishna's divine intervention.
then they put some facts
Fact 1
after the game of dice when Draupadi met Krishna, she said: "Oh Hari! At that time nobody saved me. Neither these husbands were mine, nor these sons were mine. And you, even you were not mine!" Had Krushn saved her would she have uttered such words?
Extracts:
Draupadi said to krishna "Husbands, or sons, or
friends, or brothers, or father, have I none! Nor have I thee, O thou slayer of Madhu, for ye all, beholding me treated so cruelly by inferior
foes, sit still unmoved"
Fact 2
When the Pandav were in the forest, Krushn said to them "I was away. Had I known of this dice game, I would not have allowed it to happen." This implies that he did not know of anything that happened in his absence. Then how could he have provided the clothes or else did he knowingly allow draupadi to be stripped?
Extracts
"Vasudeva said, O lord of earth, if I had been present at Dwaraka, then, O king, this evil would not have befallen thee! And, O irrepressible one, coming unto the gambling-match, even if uninvited by the son of Amvika (Dhritarashtra), or Duryodhana, or by the other Kauravas, I would have prevented the game from taking place ...... then I would have slain them all, along with those
gamblers, there present! "
This site tells that krishna didn't save draupadi by giving dress, this is not my point . but this website is one who is tellilng this point , so give your views. do tell your points with any proofs if they are available
Complied
by
Gandherva
Jai Shri Krishna. Yes I too have wondered a lot about this. I have a feeling not only the vastraharan but there are some other characters and incidents which dont seem authentic. Example Indra giving Karna the amogh shakti after taking his kavach. He took Karnas kavach kundal no doubt but did he have such a powerful weapon ? I have my doubts becoz Indra has been getting defeated by asuras since time eternal. Even in Ramayana Ravans son Indrajeet defeated him. During Mahabharata time much before the battle at kurukshetra Narakasura defeated Indra and took his mother Aditis earrings right in his presence and the helpless Indra had to go to Sri Krishna to get help. Where was this amogh shakti then ? Why didnt Indra use it. There are records of Indra using vajra but no record of using the shakti before or after Mahabharata time. Sant Dnyaneshwar has translated the Gita in a work called Bhavrath Deepika. The name of every warrior who took part in the great war is mentioned there. There is the name of Kuntibhoj bhurishrava etc I could NOT find the name of Ghatotkacha. I feel that this Shakti and Ghatotkacha were created to protect Indra from disgrace. In my humble opinion Indra took the Kavach kundal and went away. I dont think he had any such shakti in the first place let alone giving it to Karna.
ReplyDeleteWell the extracts are from KMG which i forgot to mention, then yeah your point is a good point too , but still the reason for karna getting the sakthi weapon is not indra, karna is the one who asks for the dart from indra because he says that indra must not be disgraced , Then ghatotkacha had indra's powers inside him so that dart easily killed him , but about the other asuras they get a boon from a superior deity or a sage or anyone that they would not be killed by any celestials , this may be the reason for indra not using it . then again indra is bound by fate, he can't change it .but still we don't which point was right, if your point was is right then ghatot ghacha must have been killed by karna using him human powers
ReplyDeleteShree Gandharva. Yes its a strong possibility that Karna asked Indra his shakti to save Indra from disgrace. Coming to other asuras getting boons that they wont be defeated by celestials I would like to draw your attention to Lord Shiva giving a boon to Jayadratha. His boon to Jayadratha was that he will check to formation of all the Pandava brothers except Arjuna who had divine weapons like brahmastra and Pashupat astra. But when the same Lord Shiva gives boons to other asuras on reservation on Indra is made. He is very conviniently included in the list of devtas who can be defeated by the asura who is taking the boon. Arjuna himself when to Indraloka to get celestial weapons. All the devtas had given him divine weapons. Indra too was there but then why this amogh shakti was not given to Arjuna by him? Indra being Arjunas father is definatly biased to him. The same Indra who tried to arrange a meeting between Urvashi and ARjuna did not give this shakti to his dear son Arjuna. This is also one of the reasons I believe the Shakti did not exist.
ReplyDeleteYa..Krishna says he doesn't know this 1ly 2 give some reason 2 Draupadi..i dont think he means it..He s divine,eternal and knows everything.Had he made his presence physically to save YAgnaseni, then the 1st execution of punishment should be done only on Yudishtir who was responsible for keepng kingdom n his wife at stake rather than Duri..As this is not possible, he chose to remain unknown about the incident..Also this cud be done by none other than Krishna as he had promised 2 help her..
ReplyDeleteIn Rajasuya yAga, after killing Sisupala de Sudarshan Chakra came back and rested on de finger of Krishna..When it happend it cut his finger and Krish started bleeding..When othrs were watching Draupadi was de 1ly 1 who tore some cloth from her pallu n tied it on his finger..Krish promised her 2 repay for every thread in ta cloth
@Niraj see gods are biased towards arjuna , but not indra, indra is some one who misbehaves with the wife of some rishis , yeah i agree he learnt his mistake. See arjuna has pasupata from shiva what is need of sakthi, although see once indra gave sakthi to karna he himself doesn't have it any more, so only when karna uses it , that would return to him back. See ravana and narakasura are supposed to be killed by a superior deity than indra so indra can't kill them. do you remember that during kurushetra abhimanyu ,satyaki and arjuna didn't kill the kauravas because bhima has vowed to kill them . so understand that it is fate indra would obiously respect fate
ReplyDelete@naresh, which version do you have this sudarshana sakra cutting kirshna's finger story, see how could one's own weapon hurt himself, see isn't krishna that much bad in wielding weapons
ReplyDeleteGandherva
ReplyDeleteThis s wat i saw in Sri Krishna..Also i have heard it somewhere else..Not sure if it finds a place in BRC...
The cut finger scene is in the Chopra TV series. I haven't seen that anywhere else. It's interesting that the Pune Critical Edition of the Mahabharata leaves Krishna out of the disrobing entirely. In your quote at the top you left out the fact that Draupadi's garment kept re-producing itself: "But when her skirt was being stripped off, another similar skirt appeared every time."
ReplyDeleteThis was some kind of miracle, but it is unclear who's magic was behind it. There certainly are anonymous supernatural actors in this story, such as the "disembodied voice" which speaks out to Shakuntala and also tells Sishupal's parents not to kill him as a baby. They never say whose voice this is! As for the Critical Edition, the decision to leave krishna out of the Disrobing scene was controversial. Apparently every edition has a slightly different story here, so they assumed they were all later additions and just left Krishna out of it.
It is also interesting that the miracle of Draupadi's garment is almost covered up in the story. Like you pointed out, as soon as they mention the magic skirt, Bhima interjects his threat, and that changes the subject away from the miracle.
I'm beginning to suspect that one could erase every mention of Krishna from the Mahabharata, and what was left would still be a complete story. In other words, it might be possible that the story existed BEFORE Krishna was added to it. I'm not completely convinced of this, but I'm keeping my eyes open to it as I read the entire thing....
Lawrence Manzo,
ReplyDeleteI know that you have read MB but they all have different explantations. In Gujarati version, Krishna did not hurt his finger by Sudharsan Chakra. Once Krishna came to Indraprasth and started to eat a sugarcane cutting it with a knife. Krishna purposly placed a cut on his finger by the knife. All the wives of Krishna started to run looking for something to wrap around the wound. At that time, Draupadi was there, she tore her sari and wrapped it around Krisna's finger.
Later, Baghwan Krishna counted the threads in the part of sari that was wrapped around his finger. The threads were 999. Krishna thought that I must repay Draupadi back somehow so when Dushasan was trying to take Draupadi's sari off, Krishna kept on suppling saries all the way until 999 saries. When 999 saries ended, Krishna made Dushasan weak. This was all Krishna leela where he explains that whatever you give me,( daan ) I will multiply it and give back to you. Jai Sri Krishna.
ReplyDeleteFor all karna's Fans:
(SOURCE-TRANSLATION OF ORIGINAL MAHABHARAT OF VYAS BY KESARI MOHAN GANGULY
& WHICH IS THE ONLY PRECISE TRANSLATION AVAILABLE ON PUBLIC DOMAIN):
Incident 1:Karna fled from battlefield from Arjuna(Virata Yudh):
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m04/m04060.htm
Incident 2:Karna defeated by Gandharwa chitrasena:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03239.htm
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03240.htm
Incident 3:Arjuna defeat Ghandarwas & rescued Duryodhan & kurus:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03243.htm
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03244.htm
Incident 4:Karna defeated & freightened by Abhimanyu in chakruvyuhu:
Hearing these words, Karna, afflicted with the shafts of Arjuna's son, once more said unto Drona, 'Exceedingly afflicted with the shafts of Abhimanyu, I am staying in battle, only because (as a warrior) I should stay here. Indeed, the arrows of this south of great energy are exceedingly fierce. Terrible as they are and possessed of the energy of fire, these arrows are weakening my heart.'
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m07/m07045.htm
Incident 5:Karna's defeat at Draupadi Swayamvar by Arjuna!
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01193.htm
What Karna's own friend Ashwathama & kripacharya think of karna:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m04/m04049.htm
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m04/m04050.htm
what Lord Krishna think of karna's bravery:
Krishna said(To Arjuna):.I swear by Truth to thee, O friend, that my limbs are burning at the thought that while the son of Subhadra was thus advancing, consuming the hostile army with his shafts, even on that occasion the wicked-souled Karna was engaged in acts of hostility to that hero,Unable, O Partha, to stay in that battle before Abhimanyu's face, mangled with the shafts of Subhadra's son, deprived of consciousness, and bathed in blood, Karna drew deep breaths, inflamed with rage. At last, afflicted with arrows, he was obliged to turn his back upon the field.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m08/m08073.htm
& Finally karna himself accepting Arjuna's supeority:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m08/m08079.htm
FINAL KARNA ARJUNA BATTLE(DAY 17 OF MAHABHARATA):
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m08/m08089.htm
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m08/m08090.htm
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m08/m08091.htm
ACCORDING TO MY ANALYSIS OF THIS TRANSLATION IN THE FINAL BATTLE OF MAHABHARATA,ARJUNA & KARNA ASSAULTED EACH OTHER 35 TIMES WITH NUMEROUS, THOUSANDS & LAKHS OF ARROWS ………8 TIMES THEY NULLIFIED EACH OTHER ARROWS ,12 TIMES BOTH KARNA & ARJUNA PIERCED EACH OTHER BUT THE REMAINING 15 TIMES ARJUNA PIERCED KARNA IN EVERY PART OF HIS BODY & KARNA’S LIMBS,YOKE,STANDARD,STEEDS,CHARIOT WERE RIPPED APART & KARNA WAS LEFT MANGLED BATHED IN BLOOD & KARNA HAD NO ANSWER FOR ARJUNA’S ARROWS!!!
Authenciaty of vyas original mahabharat by km ganguly:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/maha/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kisari_Mohan_Ganguli